The graphic in today’s ChinesePod lesson upset some users. It was dogs in a cage and the lesson was about dog meat and animal rights. A few users said the photo made them want to unsubscribe. We eventually changed the photo and the lesson intro. I won’t go into great details. But it did make me think about sensitivity and what it means in China.
Generally speaking, we are a lot cruder about every issue that Anglo Saxon countries (excuse the generalisation) are sensitive about: race, religion, sexuality, weight, income, animal (and human) rights. By that measure, everyone in China is like Bill Maher. The term political correctness is not even part of the mainstream lexicon. I once rode a taxi with 2 friends, a white woman and her African American husband. After they got off the car, the driver asked me if the woman was really poor. I asked why and he said why else would she marry an African American? That was an extreme case of ignorance I have to say. Most people would not go that far. But at the same time, if you were in the car, you would agree that the driver’s question came out of genuine curiosity rather than ill intentions.
If we are talking about a world with 2 superpowers (if that is ever possible) or one with China being the superpower, a lot needs to be done for both sides to understand or at least be aware of each other’s thinking to avoid a ‘clash of civilisations’.
« Prev：The Charmed Expat Life Over? How China Sees Itself, the World and More: Interview with Kaiser Kuo：Next »
March 18, 2009 4:52 pm
Hey Jenny,
I never blog about this issue because it is just a huge, dispiriting mountain to even contemplate climbing and I kinda knew what I was signing up for when I moved here.
But… because of the example you gave, of the interracial couple, I feel compelled to give my 2 cents. Three quick points:
1. It is not “politically incorrect” to assume that all dark-skinned people are poor. It’s racist.
2. With the greatest respect, I don’t buy the “The Chinese don’t know any better” defence. Not in a country that idolizes Kobe Byant, LeBron whatsisface and a host of other black sports /music stars. So, they know that being dark-skinned is not synonymous with poverty/inferiority. And it’s not, unfortunately, just old people who subscribe to this notion so it can’t really be argued that it’s a generational thing.
3. In my opinion, the main issue here is not that there is prejudice in China, but that it is ok to be overt about prejudice here whereas in the West, you have to be covert about it otherwise you get all sorts of nasty labels attached to you.
Finally, I really don’t want this to seem like an anti-China or anti-Chinese people rant. I have no axe to grind; just an opinion to share☺
March 18, 2009 7:21 pm
Hi Iris,
Thanks for your comment. Like I said the incidence in the post was an extreme case. I particularly agree with your point about in China, it is more acceptable to be ‘overt about prejudice’. To your point about how aware or what kind of intentions some Chinese have, I think you see a clear difference in attitude between different generations and educational background, which is true anywhere. And it is certainly not the case that racism is OK here. Rather, the difference lies in a different spectrum of sensitivity.
March 18, 2009 8:10 pm
Iris –
I completely disagree with your comments. You are projecting your own and your societies prejudices on another culture. I find questions like the cab driver asked refreshing in that he was able to ask the question at all. And, because he was able to ask the question, he was then able to receive feedback and be corrected.
Americans are so caught up in being ‘politically correct’ it is sickening and stifling. It is difficult to walk around and have to be careful what we say, how we look at someone or what kind of things other people are thinking about what we are thinking. To be able to discuss things out in the open, without the whole room catching their collective breath, would be refreshing. That is one thing I really like about the Chinese people.
Jenny – Thanks for this article. It makes me ‘homesick’ (i.e. I have always felt that I was born Chinese, just in the wrong country).
March 18, 2009 8:44 pm
Hello Jenny, My experience as a westerner (frequently) visiting China is that there is more of what I perceive as “openness”: less inhibition about saying what’s on one’s mind. Because of this expectation for open inquiry in China, I’m less sensitive to things that would otherwise alert my radar when in the US. This is another reason I like China! Best, Tom
March 18, 2009 9:47 pm
Alekx,
Really appreciate your candid thoughts. Political correctness may make people ‘respect’ each other verbally. But not entirely from the heart.
March 18, 2009 9:49 pm
Tom,
Never thought I would say this, but sometimes we have greater freedom of speech in China, no?
March 18, 2009 10:01 pm
Hi, Jenny!
I have been to Shanghai, China once, and I would just like to make the point that even though I have experienced some remarks that can be characterized as racist or politically uncorrect, we have to be a bit patient with China. It’s not that many years ago that China opened up to the rest of the world. And it’s only in these recent times that Chinese people have been getting major cultural impulses from the rest of the world. In western countries such as Norway, where I come from, we have a varied population with lots of substantial immigrant minorities. As far as I know this is not the case with China, having a largely homogeneus population.
PS: I’ve been a Chinesepod subscriber for a long time, and have listened to a lot of your podcasts. I’m a great fan, Jenny, and I really enjoy learning Chinese from you and your co-workers. Keep up the good work!
March 19, 2009 12:13 am
Knut,
Your observations are very true. (Note that there are actually 56 ethnic groups in China, so theoretically we are not very homogenous. But the reality is different of course).
Lastly, thank you very much for supporting ChinesePod!
March 19, 2009 8:46 am
@Alekx. Fabulous that you disagree – it’s what stimulates debate. But you know very little about me, my prejudices or my experience in China so best not to reference what I am projecting, since you cannot possibly have a clue, eh?
@Jenny re: greater freedom of speech in China, in certain issues. I agree with that. The freedom to articulate what you’re thinking rather than worry about about how society will disapprove if it doesn’t fit in with the prevailing culture. It has gone too far in the West. I think that there is a happy medium to be found between the two extremes.
March 19, 2009 1:05 pm
Jenny,
Were the criticisms from people living in China or outside of China? There is a big difference, in that I would (like) to think that most foreigners living in China, understand that the Chinese in general, are very curious and do not state things in malice. Most Chinese are extremely warm, friendly, curious and yes blunt.
On the other hand, people living outside of China may have a different perception and may be ignorant of the Chinese behavior have very little experience in dealing with the Chinese. We (being westerners) need to do a much better job in educating the public. Where the media fails, I find that the blogs from expats living in China, have taken the initiative to help bridge that gap.
March 19, 2009 4:18 pm
“Most Chinese are extremely warm, friendly, curious and yes blunt.”
I agree, but sometimes that bluntness crosses the line and lends a voice to the most appalling attitudes. Wherever I’ve travelled in China with my Chinese wife, we’ve encountered comments regarding racial purity and insults questioning my wife’s occupation and national loyalty.
It may not be a majority attitude, but the frequency of such comments reflects the deep and widely held prejudices that still exist in Chinese society. The Chinese psyche might still be coming to terms with interracial relationships, but, seriously, how long do they need?
March 19, 2009 5:10 pm
Tina,
Definitely. We are fortunate enough to have the experience of seeing both sides of the story and it is a very enriching experience for us to bridge the gap.
March 19, 2009 6:11 pm
Stuart,
Over zealous ‘nationalists’ have been very vocal in recent years, a mixed feeling of persecution and resurgence, accentuated by a lack of channel for free speech and disgruntled about social inequalities. A very complicated mess.
March 19, 2009 9:06 pm
Iris – Thanks so much for kind criticism. Yes, I may have assumed too much from your comments.
Another thought is that the tone of the question by the cab driver is also important. Did he ask out of desire to learn/know or did he mean to put down the people? If his question was out of a desire to learn, then his perceived prejudice could be corrected with a balanced and kind response.
From my experience with Chinese, they are very inquisitive and like to know and learn things without making too many judgments first. Of course, that is an outsiders view.
March 20, 2009 7:04 am
“…if you were in the car, you would agree that the driver’s question came out of genuine curiosity rather than ill intentions….’
‘got into this late. Nevertheless I feel like sharing my viewpoint.
Jenny what is the “genuine curiosity” in believing and sharing with a fellow Chinese that a white lady married to a black guy is indeed poor (like all blacks are perceived to be poor by the Chinese)
I stayed in China for 3 years and recently came back to South Africa last December. I faced numerous prejudices, socially and professionally while in China because of my dark skin. After studding deeply the Chinese psyche on this matter. I came to the conclusion that Inferiority Complex of the Chinese more than anything breeds this type of thinking.
The yellow skin people sees the white skin people as more superior, thought they may not verbally admit this, but it’s very obvious to the discerning person, like I see this very often in their dealings and comportment amongst the whites. And also sadly with the aid of their all might media CCTV they tend to ascribe superiority complex to them self when the issue is the black race (This is nothing more than a “make me feel good therapy” about them self)
There is this 3 level race hierarchy in their subconscious mind. Inferiority complex toward the white and a superiority complex toward the blacks since their media as always and are still portrait the blacks as poor. Especially if you are from Africa. Because to them Africa represents poverty. No thanks to their media.
How the Taxi driver would knows that the guy in question is an American citizen. Also how else most Chinese would know that Johannesburg is rated more than most cities in China, when their media won’t portray that aspect.
The Chinese problem is that of inferiority complex…not racism. And a fallacy of hasty generalization born out of deep ignorance and this transcend their educational level. Only the very few enlightened ones are free from this misconception.
March 20, 2009 7:13 am
“…if you were in the car, you would agree that the driver’s question came out of genuine curiosity rather than ill intentions….’
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
‘got into this late. Nevertheless I feel like sharing my viewpoint.
Jenny what is the “genuine curiosity” in believing and sharing with a fellow Chinese that a white lady married to a black guy is indeed poor (like all blacks are perceived to be poor by the Chinese)
I stayed in China for 3 years and recently came back to South Africa last December. I faced numerous prejudices, socially and professionally while in China because of my dark skin. After studding deeply the Chinese psyche on this matter. I came to the conclusion that Inferiority Complex of the Chinese more than anything else breeds this type of thinking.
The yellow skin people sees the white skin ones as more superior, thought they may not verbally admit this, but it’s very obvious to the discerning person, like I see this very often in their dealings and comportment amongst the whites. And also sadly with the aid of their almighty media CCTV they tend to ascribe superiority complex to them self when the issue is that of the black race (This is nothing more than a “make me feel good therapy” about them self)
There is this 3 level race hierarchy in their subconscious mind. Inferiority complex toward the white and a superiority complex toward the blacks since their media has always and are still portraying the blacks as poor. Especially if you are from Africa, because to them Africa represents poverty.
How would the Taxi driver knows that the guy in question is an American citizen. Also how would most Chinese know that Johannesburg is rated more than most cities in China, when their media won’t portray that aspect?
The Chinese problem is that of inferiority complex…not racism. And a fallacy of hasty generalization born out of deep ignorance and this transcend their educational level, only the very few enlightened ones are free from this misconception.
Terry
Please discard the first write-up
March 20, 2009 11:23 am
Jenny,
The ‘feelings’ you mention can in no way account for, much less justify, the kind of insults directed at mixed race couples in China, particularly when the female is Chinese. The problem runs much deeper than that and will require a wholesale change of attitudes from ground root level. The Chinese government seem disinclined to address the issue, preferring to hide behind the often stated view that there is no racism in China.
March 23, 2009 11:42 am
i think political correct thinking is some kind of authoritarian thinking. one guy who’s never accused of being politically incorrect is Michael Moore. His book “Stupid White Men” however is full of prejudice. Some book called “Stupid Black Lesbians” would be threatened with censorship, or widespread criticism.
My late grandfather could be called a racist. He would repeatedly make racist comments about blacks. But I cannot remember one even one time when he has mistreated somebody for being black. He has worked with blacks from his youth (he was the son of a slave owner), he married a woman of mixed native Brazilian descent and some of his children married African-brazilians, he never treated his grandsons differently.
He did not share Michael Moore’s politically correct framework, and did indeed have some racist flaws beyond that, but his life ended up as a tribute to understanding and acceptance of differences. One can live beyond his prejudices, one can act better than his thinking.
March 23, 2009 5:00 pm
The Chinese have yet to master the art of Western subtletly. Your cab driver should have prefaced his statement the way SOME (not all) Americans do: “I am not being racist…” and proceed to stereotype or say racist things. In the 80s, I heard an Eddie Murphy interview where he talked about racism in America. He recalled an incident were some whites near him spewed racist remarks but took back what they said when they realize they were in front of a famous and popular African-American actor. It turned out that they loved Murphy’s movies. So it shouldn’t be surprise if one discovers that some Chinese who idolize basketball players like Kobe Bryant or LeBron Bryant would think the way your cab driver did.
This insensitivity issue you mention is not a Chinese-problem. It’s a people-problem. Some will unlearn this behavior and some will remain the same way.
March 23, 2009 9:55 pm
Marcos,
That’s a great point. Almost ‘positive discrimination’ for liberal thinking. Of course discerning minds will know any one-sided view is not to be taken seriously. Whether it’s Michael Moore or Rush Limbaugh, I don’t know if they can really ‘convert’ people to their camp.
March 23, 2009 9:59 pm
Stuart,
The regime is founded on the principle of egalitarianism in theory. So that’s the story they will stick to for the time being.
March 23, 2009 10:04 pm
Art,
It is also a matter of exposure. A few days ago, Ken asked me if most Chinese knew that Muslims don’t eat pork and are banned frm consuming alcohol, I don’t know the answer, but I said 80% of the population is rural. I am not saying they simply don’t have the exposure or knowledge (as basic religion knowledge is in the curriculum), but I wouldn’t say most people would be aware of that. Of course, that is entirely a different issue from being racist or mean.
March 23, 2009 10:59 pm
I have one question that I’d be interested in hearing honest opinions and responses on, if, as Jenny alludes to, “sometimes we have greater freedom of speech in China” would it be correct to argue that members of those “practically Han” minority groups living in a nearly or realistically homogeneous China have the same luxuries of protection that “ignorance” provides when making blanket statements about the majority population of China, the Han? Confusing? Sorry. I’m simply stating, it is always easy to excuse prejudice, rudeness or any number of transgressions when you are part of the majority inflicting, consciously or not, harm upon the minority. I am a white, middle class male from America so I feel I have some authority on this. Now I realize, from living, studying and working in China for a year and half, that Chinese freely speak on a whole manner of topics -image, weight, acne, etc.- and perhaps that just bolsters the defense to their case of openness in conversation. But I’ve sat in on too many classes and conversations and heard too many statements from the majority that were spoken without hushed voice to ignore this habit or to brush it aside as simply not knowing any better. I can not forget about the time I had conversations with a group of minority students from Qinhai how they were so nervous to be seen congregating with me in a park, how authorities came, kicked me out, detained some of them for questioning and struck fear in all of us. These situations may seem incongruent at first but I use it to illustrate that we as a majority always see our actions as ok or excusable. We take it for granted, think that minorities will understand or simply forget about them altogether. I marvel at the socially unfettered speech. And I am appalled at other times by the invectives spewed, yes out of ignorance but not the ignorance of not knowing any better but of not taking the time to thoughtfully consider and examine viewpoints outside of the majority from which they so comfortably perch. I too take advantage of my freedom in China, at times. We are all, at times, at fault for we are all human. That doesn’t mean that it is entirely excusable. It is just motivation for working harder to have greater understanding.
March 24, 2009 4:30 am
I agree with you Jenny. Regarding your Muslim example, the Chinese aren’t the only ones in this planet who know little about Muslims.
So many things to learn and understand, so little time!
March 28, 2009 1:49 am
I’m so happy I’ve found another blog I can follow on a regular basis. Love what you’re writing, keep it up!
March 30, 2009 12:08 pm
Hahah, yes this is an interesting thing. Though I don’t like animal abuse, I happen to like the lack of political correctness. I remember when I came back from the New Years holiday once, the first thing one of my Chinese friends said was “oh, you look so fat now.” Hahah, very honest. I like that.
March 31, 2009 1:59 am
Hi Little Tiger,
Thank you very much for your kind encouragement. I am very passionate about how China and the world interact with each other, especially the people that constitute the exchange. I feel very fortunate to have an audience who share the interest!
Thank you!
March 31, 2009 2:03 am
Alex,
I wonder if the resurgance of China will spread some of these sensibilities around the world as American value did… Anyway, take it with understanding and good humour as you do.
March 31, 2009 8:05 am
So Jenny,
This came to mind today as I read the latest comments. So the Chinese can be politically incorrect and insensitive in Western Eyes, but it’s normal behavior in Chinese society. A Chinese can be very frank about someone’s corpulence among other things. And yet, say something that could be construed as insensitive in Chinese eyes, the Chinese would get offended and lose face (perhaps get mad as hell). How do you reconcile insensitivity and losing face?
April 1, 2009 7:03 am
I’m sorry to hear that you changed the lesson photo and intro. There’s no difference between raising dogs for meat and raising cows for meat, or chickens, or salmon, monkeys, snakes, worms or whatever. It seems to me that the issue is not so much about the Chinese being more “crude” than Anglo Saxon countries but about people generally being retarded. And you really shouldn’t have changed the photo and the intro. You need to take a stand for something. Let the idiots unsubscribe for Christ’s sake.
April 1, 2009 3:50 pm
There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding in this discussion of what exactly “political correctness” means. Something that is “politically incorrect” is something that contradicts the power structure, whether or not it is factually correct. As I understand it, the notion was borrowed by the American Left from Mao’s writings.
In America, politically incorrect statements are those likely to offend members of or those sympathetic to various cultural and subcultural identity groups. This is because these groups represent significant voter constituencies or consumer markets and offending them is likely to adversely affect a politician’s election or a business’s profits.
In China, there are obviously other issues that the power structure has deemed unacceptable for discussion, regardless of the factual accuracy of the matters at hand. For example, my contract to work in China expressly commands me to “not interfere in China’s internal affairs,” to “respect Chinese people’s ethics and customs” and goes into more depth on how to conduct my religious activities.
So America is socially inhibited, China is socially inhibited. By coming here, I’ve just swapped one set of arbitrary mores for another. I don’t see any particular “liberation.”